Interesting! I think any immigration is ok if the person actually wants to be in the country they arrive at. So an immigrant who has just fled somewhere horrible but who doesn't actually care where they are so long as it's not as horrible as where they came from is not a "good" immigrant. Which sounds wicked doesn't it? But people fleeing horrible places need whatever is making it horrible to be sorted out so they can return. Likewise, the ones who are economic migrants need to be taught a trade and returned so their country becomes better and people want to stay in it. Sounds heartless and incredibly naive but it would help both sides wouldn't it?
Dealing with the first bit: someone fleeing a burning building might not be drawing up a short list of preferred destinations. Getting out is the priority. That said, one hears of immigrants making the trek and insisting on ending up in places that they perceive will be more advantageous to be in, e.g. Germany. Thankfully I wasn't a desperate immigrant. I was more an adventurer immigrant so I can't comment on what goes through the mind of an immigrant escaping war, but I imagine trying not to get killed is right up there on the list of priorities.
"People fleeing horrible places need whatever it making it horrible sorted out so they can return" - Syria and Ukraine are being used by NATO/US empire as geo-political footballs. Stopping NATO/US from wreaking havoc around the world would make a significant dent in migration to Europe. Our political systems are designed to ensure that our overlords don't need permission from the plebs to wreak havoc around the world. They do as they please and laugh as people fight about immigration. That's why I said immigration isn't a problem for the higher-ups.
I agree that fleeing a war/disaster zone doesn't generally give you time to draw up a preferred destination list. However, people floating across the English Channel from France may well have started out fleeing but, by the time they reach Calais they have clearly given their destination some thought! (Wickedly, it dawned on me the other day that there is a business opportunity for a people smuggler going the other way - bring immigrants over from France and unload them then smuggle English people back so they can all trek to the Dordogne or Provence now it's not so easy after Brexit!).
As for NATO/US overlords - maybe if Trump wins the next US election he will withdraw from NATO. If that happened it would collapse. The West needs to butt out of other peoples' countries but it needs something/someone major to make that happen. It would all be very unpleasant though and I can't really see it happening. Or, at least, not peacefully happening.
Where did you start from in your adventurer immigrant life? Did you have many adventures?
Note to self: do not enter into business transactions with Stuffysays. Way too ruthless!
Trump is a globalist and would never exit NATO. Don't know why people find it easy to forget that he delivered Operation Warp Speed and that wasn't a mistake on his part. He did everything that NATO required of him while he was in office. They just needed someone a little more predictable and pliable.
I left Zimbabwe, went first to NZ, then Isle of Man, then New York, then London.
I don't think Trump is interested in the rest of the world except as possible golf courses - Republicans don't really seem to look outwards. He also doesn't seem to like paying for other people/countries!
My daughter's boyfriend is from Zimbabwe - he moved to Wimbledon (or Zimbledon as he likes to call it!).
Uncontrolled immigration back in the day was about dispossession and conquest. It was part of the ‘primitive accumulation of capital’, that is, the ruthless acquisition of wealth by the rising capitalist classes of the first industrialising countries. Now, it’s a consequence of the chaos of a global system in decline, with its terminal symptoms of geopolitical conflict and war.
In Australia, the Covid-left puts more effort, loudly and sanctimoniously, into opposing the Right on immigration and refugees, than into the struggle for sufficient infrastructure for all. Infrastructure has become desperately inadequate, with house building at record low levels and immigration at record high levels.
Furthermore, pre-Covid, working-visas for immigrants were structured to hold down wages across the board, and did so.
Having no constructive solutions, the mainstream Right makes the most of these political gifts in the most cynical manner. Having no constructive solutions either, the populist Right rehash their racist conservatism of the pre-Covid era. These types populate the Freedom Movement because Covid restrictions were anathema to their individualism and aspirations.
Debt cancellation, reparations, and a struggle, by the Western working class, to end imperialist interventions in the global South, is what is required to stop ‘uncontrolled immigration’. I can’t imagine a struggle of this magnitude would arise separately to a struggle for a bigger share of the capitalist pie at home, one that could morph into a struggle to overthrow the whole damn system that causes all this grief in the first place!
While looking for part 2, I found and read your response to the reader of part 1. The reader had made a similar argument to mine. I stand by my comment. In your response piece, I think you are trying to describe the internal dynamics within capitalism which drove colonial expansion. The violence is part and parcel of enforcing economic interests of the national ruling class, that is one of the main roles of the state.
Anyway, I’m happy to stick to a discussion of the politics of contemporary immigration, especially one that rejects the cartoonishness of the faux left and the racism of the right.
Just quoting exactly what my friend wrote to me. Don't know exactly what it means but I assumed that it's some sort of area designation understood by residents of Berlin - as in, he lives in an area of Berlin recognised as "Berlin 1". As such, I don't think it's vital to the overall gist of his response.
Interesting! I think any immigration is ok if the person actually wants to be in the country they arrive at. So an immigrant who has just fled somewhere horrible but who doesn't actually care where they are so long as it's not as horrible as where they came from is not a "good" immigrant. Which sounds wicked doesn't it? But people fleeing horrible places need whatever is making it horrible to be sorted out so they can return. Likewise, the ones who are economic migrants need to be taught a trade and returned so their country becomes better and people want to stay in it. Sounds heartless and incredibly naive but it would help both sides wouldn't it?
Dealing with the first bit: someone fleeing a burning building might not be drawing up a short list of preferred destinations. Getting out is the priority. That said, one hears of immigrants making the trek and insisting on ending up in places that they perceive will be more advantageous to be in, e.g. Germany. Thankfully I wasn't a desperate immigrant. I was more an adventurer immigrant so I can't comment on what goes through the mind of an immigrant escaping war, but I imagine trying not to get killed is right up there on the list of priorities.
"People fleeing horrible places need whatever it making it horrible sorted out so they can return" - Syria and Ukraine are being used by NATO/US empire as geo-political footballs. Stopping NATO/US from wreaking havoc around the world would make a significant dent in migration to Europe. Our political systems are designed to ensure that our overlords don't need permission from the plebs to wreak havoc around the world. They do as they please and laugh as people fight about immigration. That's why I said immigration isn't a problem for the higher-ups.
I agree that fleeing a war/disaster zone doesn't generally give you time to draw up a preferred destination list. However, people floating across the English Channel from France may well have started out fleeing but, by the time they reach Calais they have clearly given their destination some thought! (Wickedly, it dawned on me the other day that there is a business opportunity for a people smuggler going the other way - bring immigrants over from France and unload them then smuggle English people back so they can all trek to the Dordogne or Provence now it's not so easy after Brexit!).
As for NATO/US overlords - maybe if Trump wins the next US election he will withdraw from NATO. If that happened it would collapse. The West needs to butt out of other peoples' countries but it needs something/someone major to make that happen. It would all be very unpleasant though and I can't really see it happening. Or, at least, not peacefully happening.
Where did you start from in your adventurer immigrant life? Did you have many adventures?
Note to self: do not enter into business transactions with Stuffysays. Way too ruthless!
Trump is a globalist and would never exit NATO. Don't know why people find it easy to forget that he delivered Operation Warp Speed and that wasn't a mistake on his part. He did everything that NATO required of him while he was in office. They just needed someone a little more predictable and pliable.
I left Zimbabwe, went first to NZ, then Isle of Man, then New York, then London.
Hahaha! I'm lovely really!
I don't think Trump is interested in the rest of the world except as possible golf courses - Republicans don't really seem to look outwards. He also doesn't seem to like paying for other people/countries!
My daughter's boyfriend is from Zimbabwe - he moved to Wimbledon (or Zimbledon as he likes to call it!).
Uncontrolled immigration back in the day was about dispossession and conquest. It was part of the ‘primitive accumulation of capital’, that is, the ruthless acquisition of wealth by the rising capitalist classes of the first industrialising countries. Now, it’s a consequence of the chaos of a global system in decline, with its terminal symptoms of geopolitical conflict and war.
In Australia, the Covid-left puts more effort, loudly and sanctimoniously, into opposing the Right on immigration and refugees, than into the struggle for sufficient infrastructure for all. Infrastructure has become desperately inadequate, with house building at record low levels and immigration at record high levels.
Furthermore, pre-Covid, working-visas for immigrants were structured to hold down wages across the board, and did so.
Having no constructive solutions, the mainstream Right makes the most of these political gifts in the most cynical manner. Having no constructive solutions either, the populist Right rehash their racist conservatism of the pre-Covid era. These types populate the Freedom Movement because Covid restrictions were anathema to their individualism and aspirations.
Debt cancellation, reparations, and a struggle, by the Western working class, to end imperialist interventions in the global South, is what is required to stop ‘uncontrolled immigration’. I can’t imagine a struggle of this magnitude would arise separately to a struggle for a bigger share of the capitalist pie at home, one that could morph into a struggle to overthrow the whole damn system that causes all this grief in the first place!
I also meant to say thank you for the thought-provoking, and insightful piece, as usual. I look forward to reading the next instalments!
While looking for part 2, I found and read your response to the reader of part 1. The reader had made a similar argument to mine. I stand by my comment. In your response piece, I think you are trying to describe the internal dynamics within capitalism which drove colonial expansion. The violence is part and parcel of enforcing economic interests of the national ruling class, that is one of the main roles of the state.
Anyway, I’m happy to stick to a discussion of the politics of contemporary immigration, especially one that rejects the cartoonishness of the faux left and the racism of the right.
"I’m Berlin One"?
Just quoting exactly what my friend wrote to me. Don't know exactly what it means but I assumed that it's some sort of area designation understood by residents of Berlin - as in, he lives in an area of Berlin recognised as "Berlin 1". As such, I don't think it's vital to the overall gist of his response.
Sure, just wondered, as lived there for a couple of years